The Swiss People's party has tried the trick before, thriving in the 2007 federal election on the back of an even more explicit poster showing three white sheep, standing on the red background of the Swiss flag, kicking out a fourth black one, above the slogan "for more security". No one, in the context of the far right, should mistake the provocative nature of a campaign fought in the Nazi colours of red, black and white.WTF? Since when did red, black and white in conjunction become "Nazi Colours"?! The Guardian must have seen this one coming though, surely. Anyhow I am going to indulge in this little exercise anyway, letting the stupid little socialist mouthpiece get away with everything is not good sportsmanship in my book. Hence, here we go:
Monday, 30 November 2009
The Guardian needs to be taken down a notch or two - red, black and white are Nazi colours apparently
If you read anything today let it be this
"Habeas corpus ad subjiciendum. Latin for "you may hold the body subject to examination". This undeniable right protects one from the state. Whilst it is in place, no-one can lock you away without having solid lawful reasons to do so. Today, if you believe that you have been incarcerated and no evidence supports that incarceration, you can demand a Writ of Habeas Corpus from the court. The court will then examine evidence that you should be gaoled, remanded, or sectioned. You might also be interested to learn that once habeas corpus is gone you can be incarcerated for up to eight months without charge. This item will be stolen just after midnight on Monday 30th November 2009."Thanks to Captain Ranty for providing me with this. As of tomorrow we are not allowed to criticise the EU according to this excerpt. That scares the living daylight out of me which is why I intend to treble my efforts to expose the fiendish debauchee which thinks it is safe in its little palace over in Brussels. Nothing could be further from the truth. You will have to chain me to a tree before you can restrain me from my keyboard.
Saturday, 28 November 2009
Quick Two Cents on UKIP
If New Labour are re-elected you only have yourselves to blame (tip: tell cast-iron-Dave). What is even worse, if you seek to discredit and destroy UKIP, and succeed, you will have forced a far more dangerous option upon the British people; the BNP. You will remember what your dear Leader, cast-iron-dave said; "UKIP is sort of a bunch of ... fruit cakes and loonies and closet racists mostly". While I personally wouldn't condone anything Mr. Cast-Iron-Dave said, even with a bargepole a my bequest, surely they are better than the full monty (BNP)? Even though he is categorically wrong since the BNP is a racist party the former is not.
Pointless People in British Politics
Friday, 27 November 2009
Challenge not the Speaker - why not?
There is much talk of the new UKIP leader Lord Pearson and what his predecessor intends to do to the current speaker namely, shock and horror, challenge the "convention" and stand in his constituency.
Labour challenged Speaker Bernard Wetherill in 1987.
James Delingpole speaks Conservative sense
Here are some of the things I think any prospective Tory candidate should believe in:
1. A commitment to lower taxes, both corporate and personal.
2. An immediate repeal of the Climate Change Act of 2008
3. Cancellation of all alternative energy projects – most especially of wind farms, because of the damage they will do to the British landscape – and an accelerated nuclear programme.
4. Tougher stance on immigration.
5. Tougher stance on Islamist extremism, particularly on Foreign Office collaboration with extremist groups.
6. A real bonfire of the Quangos – as in, actually destroying them, rather than simply replacing favoured Nu Lav apparatchiks with favoured Nu Tory ones.
7. A radical rethink of the NHS (as opposed to Dave’s current we’ll-spend-the-same-as-if-not-more-than-Labour-but-we’ll-be-a-bit-more-efficient non policy)
8. Withdrawal from the European Union (except as part of a trading bloc)
9. Repeal of all PC or nannying social legislation such as the Human Rights Act and the Independent Safeguarding Authorities “all adults are paedophiles”
10. Repeal of the ban on foxhunting.
Special Relationship? My butt (F-35, plane in vain)
Nightjack's most useful post
A Survival Guide for Decent Folk
Paul has posted a number of lengthy replies on the “Modest Proposal" thread. In these days of us increasingly having to deal with law abiding folk who have fallen foul of the “entitled poor” and those who have learned how to use us to score points and exact revenge, I thought it would be a good idea to give out a bit of general guidance for those law abiding types who find themselves under suspicion or under arrest. It works for the bad guys so make it work for you.
Complain First Always get your complaint in first, even if it is you who started it and you who were in the wrong. If things have gone awry and you suspect the cops are going to be called, get your retaliation in first. Ring the cops right away and allege for all you are worth. If you can work a racist or homophobic slant into it so much the better.Make a counter allegation
Regardless of the facts, never let the other side be blameless. If they beat you to the phone, ring anyway and make a counter allegation against them. Again racism or homophobia are your friends. If you are not from a visible minority ethnic culture, may I suggest that that the phrase “You gay bastard” or similar is always useful. In extremis, allege sexual assault. It gives us something to bargain with when getting the other person to drop their complaint on a quid-pro-quo basis. This is particularly good where there are no independent witnesses. When it boils down to one word against another and nobody is ‘fessing up, CPS run a mile and you, my friend, are definitely on a walk out.
Never explain to the Police
If the Police arrive to lock you up, say nothing. You are a decent person and you may think that reasoning with the Police will help. “If I can only explain, they will realise it is all a horrible mistake and go away”. Wrong. We do want to talk to you on tape in an interview room but that comes later. All you are doing by trying to explain is digging yourself further in. We call that stuff a significant statement and we love it. Decent folk can’t help themselves, they think that they can talk their way out. Wrong.
Admit Nothing
To do anything more than lock you up for a few hours we need to prove a case. The easiest route to that is your admission. Without it, our case may be a lot weaker, maybe not enough to charge you with. In any case, it is always worth finding out exactly how damning the evidence is before you fall on your sword. So don’t do the decent and honourable thing and admit what you have done. Don’t even deny it or try to give your side of the story. Just say nothing. No confession and CPS are on the back foot already. They forsee a trial. They fear a trial. They are looking for any excuse to send you home free.
Keep your mouth shut
Say as little as possible to us. At the custody office desk a Sergeant will ask you some questions. It is safe to answer these. For the rest of the time, say nothing.
Claim Suicidal Thoughts
A debatable one this. Claiming to be thinking about topping yourself has several benefits. If you can keep it up, it might just bump up any compensation payable later. On the other hand you may find yourself in a paper suit with someone watching your every move.
Always always always have a solicitor
Duh. No brainer this one. Unless you know 100% for sure that your mate the solicitor does criminal law and is good at it, ask for the Duty Solicitor. They certainly do criminal law and they are good at it. Then listen to what the solicitor says and do it. Their job is to get you off without the Cops or CPS laying a glove on you if at all possible. It is what they get paid for. They are free to you. There is no down side. Now decent folks think it makes them look like they have something to hide if they ask for a solicitor. Irrelevant. Going into an interview without a solicitor is like taking a walk in Tottenham with a big gold Rolex. Bad things are very likely to happen to you. I wouldn’t do it and I interview people for a living.
Actively complain about every officer and everything they do
Did they cuff you when they brought you in? Were they rude to you? Did they racially or homophobically abuse you? Didn’t get fed? Cell too cold? You are decent folk who don’t want to make a fuss but trust me, it pays to whinge and no matter how trivial and / or poorly founded your complaint there are people who will uncritically listen to you and try and prove the complaint on your behalf. Some of them are even police officers. Nothing like a complaint to muddy the waters and suggest that you are only in court because the vindictive Cops have a grudge against you. Far fetched? Wait until your solicitor spins it in court and you come over as Ghandi.
Show no respect to the legal system or anybody working in it
You think that if you are a difficult, unpleasant, sneering, unco-operative and rude things will go badly for you and you will be in more trouble. No sirree Bob. It seems that in fact the worse you are, the easier things will go for you if, horror of horrors, you do end up convicted. Remember to fake a drink problem if you haven’t developed one as a result of dealing with us already. Magistrates and Judges do seem to like the idea that you are basically good but the naughty alcohol made you do it. They treat you better. Crazy I know but true.
So there you go, basically anything you try and do because you are decent and staightforward hurts you badly. Act like an habitual, professional, lifestyle criminal and chances are you will walk away relatively unscathed. Copy the bad guys, its what they do for a living.
Thursday, 26 November 2009
Au Contraire we can do something
Utterly Frightening
The Euro Federalists are in a hurry. They are seeing the disquiet and anger building in the UK at the lack of democracy, with leader after leader denying them a say on our future with the EU. As the anger mounts amongst the public, the Euro Federalists are moving ever quicker to ensure that the Britain we know and love can never escape the clutches of the new empire.
From those big names in Brussels, Barroso, Van Rompuy and the like you would expect this, but let us look at someone you would not expect this from. Dan Hannan.
Dan has promoted himself along with Douglas Carswell as Libertarians inside the Conservative Party. They put out a book, The Plan, They appear to be at loggerheads with the party leadership, a thorn in Cameron's side, but are they? Or are they working to the same plan as Cameron.
In a series of articles in the Telegraph this week, Hannan's true colours are coming through, and the truth is that Hannan is as much a 'progressive' communitarian as Cameron.
Let me try and put this into perspective. Last month I wrote about the legal base that Cameron will inherit once Lisbon comes into force on 1st Dec 2009. In the comments of that article, I also wrote about the Committee of the Regions.
The Committee of the Regions is made up of appointees, not necessarily anyone who holds an elected position. It is this EU Committee that will ultimately hold regional power, not National governments.
When John Prescott first mooted the idea in the UK of Regional Assemblies, the public rejected it. That was the last time the public was asked to participate.
His then department, the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister (ODPM) went into overdrive, and diverted billions of taxpayers money into setting up regional government by stealth, recruiting and training personnel to run it all in the background using the subversive and secretive training company Common Purpose, which operates on a Europe wide scale invoking the Chatham House rules to ensure secrecy. Offering Common Purpose graduates the biggest networking opportunity of their lifetime, many have gotten very rich on the back of setting up this secret second government structure. But, it was all done on the basis that the public must never know until Lisbon was in place, and too late to do anything about it.
The end result is 12 Regional Development Agencies, 9 Regional Assemblies in England, The Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly and the NI Assembly, reorganisation of Regional TV & Radio, 12 Regional Emergency Services, 12 Regional NHS organisations, reorganisation of the Army with 12 primary Regiments, reorganisation of local government to fit into the EU 2 tier model, all of this coordinated by The Committee of the Regions in Brussels.
The Committee of the Regions was initially set up as a consultation body, but it has with each Treaty gained more influence and more power, taken control of more of the shared competencies. In place since 1994, this EU organisation has been making local UK policy, not British politicians (that why they look so dumb sitting on the front bench, nothing original)
Set up by the Maastricht Treaty, its first meeting was in March 1994. Initially five areas of obligatory consultation (economic and social cohesion; trans-European networks in the field of transport, energy and telecommunications; public health; education and youth; culture).
Amsterdam Treaty (1999) added a further five (employment, social policy, environment, vocational training, transport).
The latest treaty Lisbon, gives it total control over all shared competencies. It consists of 344 members and 344 alternate members appointed for 4 years by the Council, having been nominated by member states.
Put bluntly the EU now mirrors the old Soviet Union almost completely.
The European Parliament mirrors the Soviet Duma or the Hall of the Peoples Representatives. (elected, although in USSR choice of 1 candidate, a rubber stamp parliament in both cases)
The Committee of the Regions mirrors the Great Hall of the Peoples, the Regional Heads. (in EU unelected, in USSR elected, although only choice of 1 candidate)
Laws in the UK are implemented on the basis of directives from the European Commission, which are then presented as Bills/Acts of Parliament/Statutory Instruments for those areas of exclusive EU competence.
Policy on shared competency is created by the Committee of the Regions and implemented by Political parties in National Governments and Local Authorities, and by Regional Development Agencies, Regional Assemblies and Regional Grand Committees (The regional alternative to Westminster).
And has been since 1994. That is why I consider Westminster a theatre, PR men like Cameron and Clegg pretending that power still lies in Westminster. That is why I want it all back until the people decide whether this is what they want and wish to continue this unaccountable relationship with Brussels. The primary aim of the Albion Alliance by making MP's personally responsible to their electorate.
The Committee of the Regions has a subgroup called the Lisbon Monitoring Platform (LMP). It is comprised entirely of members from the Committee, and some of its goals are as follows:
-Examine the evolving relationship between the Lisbon Strategy and the Cohesion Policy (e.g. earmarking)
- Monitor the involvement of the local and regional level in the governance process
- Identify the obstacles encountered by local and regional authorities in implementing the Lisbon Strategy.
Lisbon Monitoring Platform (LMP) annual Report (oh, they've moved it) on the implementation of the strategy reads as follows:
− more than 90% of them have programmes ongoing in the fields of innovation, the environment, the business environment;
− 85% are active in the field of human capital policy;
− around 75% of them are running programmes for industrial promotion and employment;
− the sole exception is the internal market field, in which the number of active LMP members in 2008 fell to around 25%, less then half than in 2007.
(Seems that they have moved this LMP report document so you cannot see it any longer, the usual practice when exposure of their documents come to light). No matter, I have attached it at the bottom of this post
Ok, So what has all this to do with Dan Hannan?
As I read and re-read Hannan & Carswell’s The Plan I can now see that it is a ‘democratic’ plan not for the UK, but for an EU consisting only of Regions, post National parliaments. A plan for a deeply entrenched Communitarian empire offering a faux democracy only at the local level is something reminiscent of the Soviet form of ‘democracy’.
As it is a plan to reform localism within regions of the EU, (but as Hannan himself has now admitted it cannot happen as the EU is not open to reform from within), what purpose is being served by these ‘progressives’ such as Hannan and Carswell other than to distract and to keep dissenting views within the Tory camp.
Whilst The Plan has many good elements they are only valid if they are introduced for the right reasons, unless it is unequivocally aimed at a UK outside of the EU, Dan’s motives will always remain suspect. So I think Dan must climb down off the fence and declare himself.In my original article I said:
Therefore is is most likely that in that 5 month period The Passerelle clause will be invoked to allow QMV on ALL areas of competency whilst there are still National leaders who are able to be pushed around.
The flexibility clause will also be used to acquire powers to ensure that if national leaders do not play ball, under the framework to attain its objectives, it will simply take them. If they have no intention of using these powers, why put them in the treaty.
Originally I though it would happen over a number of years, as the Council of the Regions gains influence and power transfers in Brussels over the Council of Ministers.
It will be the Council of the Regions who will call for the closing of National Parliaments, citing interference in regional affairs. In our case, that call would probably come from either the Scottish Parliament or Welsh Assembly.
As if to reinforce my view, Dan Hannan put out another article today, calling for the vote on Scottish and Welsh independence.
It has become clear for me that Dan Hannan is not the saviour and spokesman of Liberty that many assume him to be. His writing tells me that he is working for ever closer integration of the EU, not for the best interests of those he represents in Britain, and whilst I admit he is trying to put a nicer face on it, his Federalist credential are becoming clearer by the day.
And before campaigns such as Albion Alliance really take hold and start having an impact, the Federalists are in a hurry to complete the split, the breakup of the UK into 'self governing' regions so that there will no longer be a UK to effect a withdrawal.
I daresay that a lot of what it says above in the piece is not true or just has not been implemented yet, and that is what scares the living daylight out of me. But further it leads me to question, yet again, the Tory way of campaigning. They exhibit an air of malcontent towards their prospective voters and it seems threaten them with 'voting anything other than Tory means five more years of Labour'. When so much of our sovereignty is fixed in Brussels then why does it matter who we vote for? As the article outlines, we do not make the decisions neither does Westminster but Brussels. Remember how Tony let slip that creating Holyrood was part of the "process" quite what that meant back then few could envisage but we all know now. The think tanks bang on about devolution being such a success yet the normal man on the street asks 'why the fuck did they do that'? The elite, dear boy, the elite they know what is best for us. Dave has furthermore explicitly stated (on the Andrew Marr show) that he will not hold an in-out-referendum so I am still left wondering why are we to vote for the tories? A bit of cosmetics here and there to ensure that the masses thing that something substantial has actually happened in our relationship with the EU, but that will be the full extent of it.
Tuesday, 24 November 2009
I emailed Chris Grayling and this is what he replied
Dear Mr. Grayling,
My correspondence to you is with regards to the logo of the Home Office. You are with all certainty going to take office next year and as such you will be in control of the Home Office. You recall that Jacqui Smith as Home Secretary removed the Royal Crest from the Home Office at a price tag of £30,000. This has not only created all manners of confusion but it was also a direct insult to HM the Queen and our constitutional monarchy. As for the confusion, all posters etcetera at airports and ports still bear the old logo but the letters sent from the Home Office all have the new ghastly one which simply reads "Home Office" with no hint of Royal Prerogative. Go to the Home Office website and there is a mix of new and old logos being used here and there around the website. Reinstating the old logo should be a trivial matter (and cheap) since the majority of Home Office material still use it.
Will you under a Conservative government reinstate the old Home Office logo and end New Labour's attack on the Monarchy?
Yours Sincerely
13th Spitfire
This is what Mr. Grayling, Shadow Home Secretary, replied :
Dear Mr. Spitfire-----------------------
Thank you for your message. I’m certainly not taking anything for granted at the moment – but if we are successful at the election, this is an issue we will look at. I can certainly think of many better ways in which the original £30,000 could have been spent.
Best wishes
Chris Grayling
(obviously I did not use the name '13th Spitfire')
Monday, 23 November 2009
EU Democracy 'innit'? (EU Democracy = 0.008% of electoral vote)
Thursday, 19 November 2009
This EU President Business and his sidekick
How and Why?
Some music for ye oldies
Monday, 16 November 2009
National Symbols on the EU Agenda to be off the Agenda
The Huntsman, ever so clever, has summed it up well again:
The assault on the remaining power held by member 'states' is already well under way.
"'Lisbon Treaty should mean single EU seat on IMF board'
Britain should give up its place on the International Monetary Fund to make way for a single European Union seat on the fund’s board, a leading economist has said."
http://tinyurl.com/ylgpmt2
"Italy bidding for EU seat on UN Security Council
Italy has launched a new bid for the European Union to have its own seat on the United Nations Security Council after the passing of the Lisbon Treaty."
http://tinyurl.com/yecszhz
"Italy's Foreign Minister says post-Lisbon EU needs a European Army"
http://tinyurl.com/ykzcdft
This points up the dereliction of duty implicit in Hague's vague promise to address the issue of the UK's relationship with the EU over the course of the next Parliament.
The future of Tory Euroscepticism is going to be traduced by a failure to meet head-on and forthwith the power-grabs that the EU will seek in the next twelve months. Their task is going to be all the simpler by virtue of Hague having effectively said that he is going to dither, procrastinate and wriggle like a worm out of doing anything about the EU and the consequences of Lisbon.
In such manner does the leadership of the Tory party wave off like an irritating fly the genuine and deeply felt Eurosceptic views of its backbenchers, PPCs, activists and members.
Well, the EU Comrades, with whom Cameron and Hague will soon be sitting down to so many lavish dinners, will have noted this planned procrastination with care and will be hard at
it from the 1st December.
It is right for the TPA to focus on "the economic cost and waste of the European project", but that may well be pointless if the source of the politcal power and legal authority to create that cost and waste goes wholly unaddressed until such time as Hague gathers up his skirts and finds the courage to deal with the EU.
Euroscepticism is being betrayed by the deliberate and carefully planned inaction of the Tory Leadership. The Party that stands behind them must make up its mind whether it is prepared to let them fiddle whilst Brittania burns.
Sunday, 15 November 2009
Not exactly a rush for the Tories
Saturday, 14 November 2009
The Albion Alliance
The EU does matter, apparently
Thursday, 12 November 2009
Einstein was clever but...
Monday, 9 November 2009
Sports and Sovereign Decline
Sunday, 8 November 2009
An analysis of the EU policy
"'Rise like Lions after slumberIn unvanquishable number,Shake your chains to earth like dewWhich in sleep had fallen on you -Ye are many - they are few."-Percy Bysshe Shelley
Saturday, 7 November 2009
These people deserve death by firing squad
"Germany and France – two countries with sound historical reasons for distrusting the instincts of their own people – were the founders of this enterprise"
No you stupid woman it was founded by a British civil servant and a dodgy french bloke called Mr. Monnet. How on earth is the EU to be taken on if our "commentators" cannot even get its history right?
Holy Schmoly
Sorry chaps for taking a pause from the very important issue of our country's future. But, hopping on the superficial bandwagon this is just too cool. Miss England is a soldier - for all this government's fuck-ups including HM Opposition, they could not rob us of our peculiarity. I am now a proud Englishman/British again. Whereas most nations produce some sloppy 'Head and Shoulders barely-legal-teenager with boob implants' who hasn't done an honest days work in her life, the English come up with a foxy solider (yes I know some of the other contestants were equally impressive but that is not the point). That, my friends, is very honourable.
Friday, 6 November 2009
Annoying facts for dying New Labour and reviving Blue Labour
Guy Fawkes Night
“Build a bonfire, build a bonfire,Health and Safety in the middle,And burn the bloody lot.”
Not exactly poetry but well worth reproduction.
Thursday, 5 November 2009
Excellent
Tyrants have always some slight shade of virtue; they support the laws before destroying them and are always seemingly helped by the people who think the tyrant works for them. By pure deus ex machina, it would seem, history repeats itself.
Cameron Speech
Pointless. The EU does not need the consent of the UK Parliament or The People of the UK (to whom Sovereignty, which the ruling political class has so cravenly ceded to unelected unaccountable foreigners, belongs) to assume whatever powers it chooses to seize. Lisbon gives them that power. A UK Sovereignty Act will be over-ruled in a trice by the ECJ and will be a toothless, cynical, meaningless gimmick.
2. "Our manifesto will give us the mandate we need." This avoids any risk of the unpleasantness of The People gainsaying the Ruling Political Class. And in this way WE (because WE know better) will decide for The People what they really want in a way which makes it really really easy to weasel out of our promises.
3. "Parliament will have to approve any use of the Lisbon Treaty's ratchet clauses that can take more powers by stealth."
Its too late. Lisbon gives EU full primacy over UK law. If the EU decides to utilise this power, nothing Parliament does can trump EU law. Its over and time people understood this.
4."We aim to renegotiate control of social and employment laws, the Charter of Fundamental Rights and criminal justice policy." And if they refuse, what, pray, is Plan 'B'? Send a gunboat?
5."European integration must not be a one way street. We aim to establish the principle that powers can be returned to nation states as well as given up." And if they refuse, what, pray, is Plan 'B'? Send a gunboat?
6. "I know that some people want us to go further but Britain is facing the most serious crisis in the public finances. Addressing that will be a Conservative government's top priority." Now thast you have told them this, they will use the distraction thus provided to utilise to the full their new powers. By the time you get round to the EU they will have grabbed a whole lot more power.
7. "During questions Cameron says he will use accession negotiations and budget reviews to press his negotiating demands"
If Cameron does not play ball, the Euro Nabobs will simply alter whatever rules they need to dispense with his consent. The power of Provincial Governors to hold anything up is essentially nugatory.
The Euro Nabobs will take one look at this and fall about laughing. Never has such a large white flag been run up before battle is joined. They now know Cameron does not have the guts or moral fibre to take them on and will now do as they please when faced with such a Paper Tiger.
Remember: the Sovereignty of the UK belongs not to the Leader of the Tory Party or to the Conservatives. It belongs to us: so give us our country back!
Wednesday, 4 November 2009
"The electorate does not care about the EU"
Tuesday, 3 November 2009
UK in EU; a voice in the world
Does Katherine Jenkins believe joining a choir gives her a stronger voice? Or does it just dilute her voice and take away her star quality?
Monday, 2 November 2009
Cameron U-turn and that picture...
The Grand Prediction - it is catching on
I hope you are right about Cameron, but I can’t make myself believe it. Cameron thinks he will be able to dodge the EU question forever because he believes at heart that big, centralising government (ie the EU) is such a good thing that no one could possibly disagree. The best hope for conservative values is that UKIP draw enough votes to deny Cameron the keys to number 10. We suffer five more years of Brown, but we will have the same policies whoever wins so that is no loss. As a result of his defeat Cameron will lose the leadership of his party and probably defect to his natural home in the Labour party, taking the Cameroons with him. Traditional Conservatives and UKIP will join forces, perhaps calling themselves Conservatives, perhaps not. The EU sceptic/small government party that emerges will go into 2015 (because Brown or his replacement will hang on until the last possible moment) ready to fight and win a victory that will actually change something. Given the mess they will inherit they will be vilified for a generation, as Thatcher is, and for the same reason – the left prefer to blame the doctor for administering strong medicine rather than the disease of socialism itself.
I actually wrote to Hague suggesting the plan you outline in your final paragrtaph, but never received a reply.
As William Rees-Mogg has it
Historically, Britain has repeatedly wrecked European empires; they defeated Spain in the 16th century, royalist France in the 17th and 18th, and Napoleon in the early 19th. Britain outside Europe might again become a factor of division inside Europe.
Not to mention the Germans in WW1 and the Germans in WW2. I think we are heading that way again. It might be pertinent to add an 'if Cameron does X' - Cameron will not be the person who takes Britain out of the EU. 'Simples'